Where are all the Asian men? (@ Peril Magazine)

I have another post up at Peril Magazine. It's about why Asian women significantly outnumber Asian men in some parts of Australia.

It should be noted that most groups of immigrants to Australia, including those from European countries, have a sex ratio that is either approximately equal or slightly weighted towards women by several percentage points. (Women tend to be more willing to move overseas for marriage; the greater expectation men face to be the breadwinner might be an obstacle in moving to a place with uncertain work prospects, as opposed to moving specifically for work.) By contrast, the figures from India, Bangladesh and Pakistan are unusually weighted towards males. Those likely represent cultures that are highly patriarchal; not only are there already more males than females in those countries due to higher mortality and gender selection at birth, but it would be more accepted for men to leave home to travel than women. But the figures for Japan, the Philippines and Thailand are startling; there are around twice as many women as there are men immigrating to Australia from those countries.

Check it here.

White babies, please. No Eurasians for me.

This has got a lot of buzz in my networks. From Slate's "Dear Prudence" column:

My wife, who is infertile, and I have recently decided to have children—we’d like eventually to have three—using an egg donor. (We decided against adoption because we would have no biological connection to our children.) We have just settled on this option but it has thrown open a whole new dilemma for me. I am white and my wife is East Asian. Her race isn't a problem for me and I would have had no difficulty raising mixed race children, but frankly, now that I have the choice, I’d prefer my kids to be white. We live in a fairly homogeneously white area and at the end of the day I want my kids to look like me, their cousins, and the kids they'll go to school with. I don't think my wife has ever experienced racism, but I think she might understand my point of view. Then I think I maybe I’m just convincing myself about this. I really could use a second opinion before I broach the subject with her.

—Want To Be a Dad

You can read Prudence's response to this dude at the link above.

Now, if the wife is fine with this, then whatever, although that raise issues of its own about her. There's a lot of stuff that people are free to do in this world, but in doing so it reveals them as being messed up in the head. You gotta question the guy's thought process about this. It's so important for his child to look like him - which it will - but he doesn't consider that his wife might want the child to look somewhat like her. With a white child, it will be obvious throughout her life that she is raising a kid that is not genetically hers. That may not be a big deal, but it's an additional layer of scrutiny from onlookers that she may find difficulty to deal with, especially as some women might feel inadequacies (or have them projected onto them) from not being able to conceive naturally.

It's possible that he is actually genuinely concerned about half-Asian kids being the brunt of racist treatment in an all-white area. But is racism against half-Asians really such a huge area in this day and age so as to make their very existence worth negating? I've experienced a bit of racism here and there as a half-Asian, and some minor identity crises, but all in all those problems are far outweighed by  the good things. Being half one thing and half another is pretty cool. Unless "Want To Be a Dad" is living in Klansville, Mississippi or something, his half-Asian kids shouldn't have too much to worry about. His line about "I don't think my wife has ever experienced racism" is also strange. Has he never spoken to her about it? For an Asian-American woman to never have experienced even a small amount of racism is unusual indeed.

It's almost like his wife's East Asian-ness is an inconvenient fact. Or it's something he can handle in small doses, but no more than that. Perhaps he can take comfort in knowing that a lot of half white, half East Asian kids pass for white quite easily, and raised in a predominantly white environment, will likely turn out fairly white in their mentality. But perhaps that's not enough. I wonder if it's a kind of narcissism at play. One of the things people love about their own kids is that each child partly looks like themselves, as well as being reminiscent of their partner. Perhaps this guy wants to go the whole hog and have the kids look like as much as him as possible, and now he has the opportunity.

But it's also a reflection of the reality of some interracial relationships: an unhealthy intersection of appreciation for the person and appreciation of the race that they belong to. Some fetishists are attracted to a partner because of their race, while some others are attracted to a partner in spite of their race. Neither is healthy. No person is merely the sum total of their racial composition, but neither is it a trivial detail that the letter-writer seems to hope it can be.

Heineken's "The Date" ad

Ok, so check this new ad from Heineken. It's called "The Date" and it's pretty cool. But there was something in it that sorta piqued my interest.

Yes, it's the white guy/ Asian girl pairing.

Now, before some of you start to get your back up, let me say something first up. There are some Asian guys out there who have a degree of hostility to that kind of relationship, and who would dismiss the guy as a rice chaser and the girl as having some kind of self-loathing. I'm not really one of those people. I'm a product of such a relationship, for a start, and I'm in a inter-ethnic relationship of my own (she's Indian).

I like to see Asians get some representation on the screen. But the problem is that it's primarily Asian women, and when those Asian women get some lovin', it is almost always with a white guy. Of course, white guy/ Asian girl couples are commonplace in real life, so it's expected that you'd see them a bit on screen. Yet the clear majority of Asian women in Western countries choose to date or marry Asian guys, and portrayals of Asian-Asian couples are surprisingly rare. Perhaps there is a limited amount of Asian-ness producers think their audiences can handle, and two Asians in a relationship is one too many.

And a white woman with an Asian guy? According to TV and film, such a thing may as well not exist. (Note to pedants: there are exceptions to this, I know, but I'm talking overall.)

So while the frequent portrayal of white guy/ Asian girl couples does to some extent reflect reality, bear in mind that popular culture doesn't just reflect reality, it shapes it. And the portrayal of Asian men in popular culture tends to vary between poor and non-existent. When the highest profile Asian male actor in the West is Ken Jeong, best known for exposing his very underwhelming penis in The Hangover, you know that things aren't that healthy.

So as you watch the dashing white dude in the above video, sweeping the hot Asian girl off her feet in an Asian restaurant (aka "her natural environment"), ask yourself this. Why did it have to be that particular racial combination?

In isolation, it's just a couple, and their racial combination is no more significant than any other racial combination. If you look at it as part of an overall trend, then it might start to bother you a little.

Race and dating: "What is it with you and Indian chicks?"

I've been reading a few posts around the blogosphere about racial preferences in partner selection, and so I figured I'd contribute my own experiences.

More than once, someone has asked me a variation on the question, "What is it with you and Indian chicks?"

On the face of it, it's a fair question to ask. My current partner of almost 3 years is Indian (to be more specific, she is Malaysian-born of mixed Ceylonese Tamil and Indian Tamil heritage). My only other serious long-term relationship (3 years) was also with someone of Indian heritage (Punjabi, in that case). My only other relationship in which the "L" word was exchanged? She was Sri Lankan. My very first girlfriend? Pakistani.

In between those, here are the ethnicities of the women I have dated in my adult life ("dated" as in, not just "went on a date with", but having gone a little further, yet not got serious):

Indian/Jewish
Sri Lankan/Italian
Indonesian
Anglo-Indian
Sri Lankan
Indonesian
Filipino

(Sorry if I left anyone out.)

That list doesn't include the handful of people I've kissed at parties or clubs but didn't continue any further with.

I hope this doesn't come across as some attempt to brag about my "conquests" (and in any case, if it were I don't think would be a long enough list to be impressive). I'm just showing that those who surmise that my dating preferences extend primarily to South Asians would certainly be excused for thinking so. But it doesn't actually tell the whole story.

Because dating is only partly about who you choose. The other side, equally important, is who chooses you.

Now I don't think I'm anyone's idea of a playa. When it comes to getting what guys tend to think of as a "result", I guess I do OK, but I've also had my fair share of rejections, and things that petered out into nothing.

You'll notice, for example, that my above list does not include any white women. I've actually kissed a couple, and fancied a few. But how many of them actually wanted to go out with me?

Likewise, no-one of African descent on that list. Now, while there isn't a huge amount of black people in my part of the world (Australia), I actually know quite a few. So does this mean that I'm not interested in black women? Quite the contrary. I could tell you about 3 or 4 that I've been particularly interested in, but they didn't reciprocate.

There are a few South East Asians on my list - as you'd probably expect with my Indonesian background, I have dated a couple of Indonesians - but no East Asians. Which is interesting to me, because almost half the people I hang out with are Chinese. I'm pretty savvy with Chinese culture, and I find plenty of Chinese women to be attractive. Yet I've never gone beyond one or two dates with any of them. It's not that I haven't tried.

Yes, I do tend to go for a certain type. Most people do to some extent, I guess.

For me, there is something about women from South and East Asia that makes my head turn most often. I don't know if I can explain why in any quantitative fashion, they just look good to me. Not all of them, of course.

Women from Africa, the Middle East or Latin America also appeal to me, although not quite as much as Asians. White/European women a little less so, although I've certainly been smitten with one or two in the past. Interestingly, women who are a mix of white with something else, are extremely appealing to me, perhaps even more so than the unmixed "something else".

This doesn't mean I think that certain racial types are better or more beautiful than others. It's just my preference. I would date someone of any race, if I found them sufficiently attractive. It just happens to be that certain things appeal to me, both physical and personality-wise, and they tend to be found in certain groups more than others.

But ultimately this only matters so much, because when it comes to who I get into relationships with, I don't get to have it all my own way. I can fancy whoever I like, but they have to fancy me back, or it's not going to get far. And I've been trying to sell my product to a wide variety of consumers, but for whatever reason it seems to primarily appeal to a South Asian demographic.

If it were solely up to me, the above list of who I've dated would look a helluva lot more diverse. It would include Jessica Alba, for starters. But clearly, it's not just up to me.

A bit about Asian men and white women

Ok, so there's a post up at the moment on a blog (Ask Bossy) attached to one of Australia's major newspapers, and it's entitled, "Why don't Anglo women like Asian men?"

You can read it here; some of the comments are particularly interesting, especially if you find ignorance interesting.

While there are certainly white women out there who favour Asian men, and many who will consider anyone regardless of race, the overall trend is that AM/WW couples are rare, far rarer than WM/AW.

Most people date within their race; that's obvious and understandable. You go with what you know. And particularly if you are white in a white-majority country, because there are simply far more white people to choose from. But even in areas where there are plenty of Asian guys available, white women seem not go for them to any great degree.

As you might understand, there is some definite resentment from Asian males about this phenomenon. I confess that I have noticed this sentiment in myself, despite being a product of the very kind of relationship (WM/AW) that spurs this ill feeling. The resentment stems from several factors. One is the sense of unfairness that white guys are cherry-picking women from the Asian dating pool, but the same interest is not being shown to the Asian man, with the implication that Asian men are somewhere near the bottom of the hierarchy of desirableness. Secondly, it is the traditional and sexist consternation about outsiders taking "our women". Thirdly, it is the feeling that this is another manifestation of the racism suffered by Asian men, related to the unflattering perceptions of them propagated by popular culture. This goes along with the suspicion that Asian women are brainwashed into falling for a Western standard of attractiveness. As well, I think many Asian men subconsciously associate this with a kind of Western imperialism; a sort of "dating colonialism" if you will, a modern extension of the European powers invading Asian countries and appropriating their riches.

Pictured above: Rupert Murdoch and Wendi Deng

Below: Lolo Soetoro and Ann Dunham. Dunham's son Barack Obama is on the right of the picture.

So why are there comparatively so few AM/WW couples?

Let me say first up that this isn't a totally one-way street. Asian guys are not really breaking down doors en masse to date white women. Asian men tend to prefer Asian women, as you would expect. And given the high importance placed on family approval, many Asian men feel pressured to date, and certainly marry, only within their ethnicity. However, there is certainly a degree of interest there. Especially when you factor in that the greatest number of available women in a Western country are white, and how popular culture prioritises white women's beauty above all others. I think it is fair to say that there is somewhat more interest from Asian men towards white women than there is vice versa.

A point is frequently made that Asian men are generally less likely to approach white women. I believe this to be true. And while you could ascribe this to a lack of interest in white women and/or a lack of confidence among Asian men, I think both of those factors are entwined with the negative stereotypes about Asian men. The perceptions of the Asian male as being less masculine and less well-endowed mean that even when those are untrue, an Asian man might be more reluctant to approach a non-Asian woman, because he assumes that those beliefs are being held about him.  In the game of attraction, it doesn't really matter if Asians really are less manly; if a significant segment of women think they are, then that is a significant enough obstacle.

And like it or not, that is a very real perception. So many of the female commenters on Ask Bossy echo the same lines - "nothing against them, I just don't find Asian males attractive - they seem less masculine to me."

What is that based on?

We all have particular ideas about what defines masculine and feminine. Some of these are biologically programmed, but some are also culturally specific and thus a result of our socialisation. An example would be how African cultures prefer fuller-figured women than today's Western societies; paleontologists also suggest that prehistoric Europeans, based on some of their works of art, also prioritised fuller figures. So to simply categorise certain characteristics are simply either masculine or feminine is problematic, since each culture has its own variation on these themes.

We ascribe certain physical qualities as being masculine - height, a strong build, and a hairy body. Likewise, certain personality traits are considered masculine - loudness, dominance and control, toughness and so on.

One thing to consider is that a white woman might judge Asian men not simply on how he measures up to these stereotypes, but importantly, how a white woman might measure up to these stereotypes if she is partnered with an Asian man. It is quite likely that in any potential AM/WW pairing, the white woman will be as tall or taller than the Asian man, and possibly have more body hair. This may make some white women feel less feminine in comparison, and this might be a disincentive to date an Asian man.

One factor that doesn't get mentioned much is age, or more correctly, one's apparent age. It is generally accepted that all things being equal, people of Asian background tend to look younger than Caucasians of the same age. Height and the amount of facial hair also play a part in this perception. Now while a more youthful appearance is generally seen as a good thing, for males looking for a mate it can be a hindrance. The general trend is for women to seek a man of the same age or older; many women are less interested in a younger man, or at least one who seems younger. A man who looks younger might be seen to be less authoritative and powerful, which are attributes closely tied to masculine appeal.

Personality-wise, Asian men do not tend to display quite the same kind of machismo that is more prevalent in some Western cultures. Of course, Asian men are no less chauvinistic or egocentric than other types of men; but they do not always express them in the same ways. (An example is that while Asian societies are often quite violent in their own way, you are far more likely to be beaten up for no reason by drunk young men in Australia than anywhere in Asia.) The dominant stereotype of the young Asian male is someone who wears glasses and studies really hard at school; this does not fit the Western preconception of young manhood.

A few people commenting at Ask Bossy bring up that old stereotype, penis size. Now since many of those are women, I'm a little surprised; I didn't realise many women were superficial enough to disregard a guy based on how big they assume his penis might be. While I'm obviously not a woman and therefore don't know, overall I don't think it's a large part (tee hee) of what motivates women when choosing a mate. I've asked plenty of girls out in my lifetime, and not once has anyone said, "Maybe, let me inspect your penis first and I'll think about it." Which personally, I'm quite glad about.

Of course, many of the commenters who raise the small penis stereotype appear to be white men. Now it has long been my theory that white men are the primary cultivators of this stereotype, as a way to make themselves feel superior. Personally I find it odd that otherwise heterosexual men would spend so much time contemplating the Asian penis, so I figure that it is ultimately tied into some deep-seated subconscious machismo-and-racism combo.

(As to whether the stereotype is true - well, I'm not an expert in phalluses other than my own, but I'm pretty sure they come in all shapes and sizes. In every racial group, there will be some big, some small, and many average. There's probably some truth in the stereotype overall - given that Asians tend to be physically smaller in stature anyway -  but if so the average difference is unlikely to be greater than an inch, really.)


I've avoided talking about black people in this discussion so far, especially as in the Australian context, they are not all that numerous. But in the popular imagination, people of African descent occupy a particular role when it comes to ideas of masculinity and femininity. Africans are often seen as somehow more masculine, due to perceptions such as the black athlete, and of the stereotypically large African penis. With Asian men occupying the opposite end of this spectrum of stereotypes, white men occupy their usual position - the middle, as "the norm".

I've heard this referred to around the place as the "Three Bears Effect". As in the story of Goldilocks, who tasted three bowls of porridge, one too hot, one too cold, but one that was "just right". So when we factor other racial stereotypes into the equation, we have a complete picture of how these stereotypes seem set up to benefit white males. Black males are manly but dumb and uncivilised; Asians are smart but are not manly; while white males are "just right".

Whether you agree with this idea or not, it is important to recognise that in the West our entire way of thinking conditions us to see the white male as "the norm", around which everyone else is measured.

Thus under this way of thinking, an Asian male's comparative lack of body hair might be seen as a sign of femininity. Through an Asian mindset, in which an Asian body is the norm, white men might be considered too hairy.


So, is it racist for white women to find Asian men less attractive?

No. Well, not really. Sort of.

Attraction is not something you choose. We all have our own individual preferences for certain types of people, be it based on height, colour, gender, sense of humour. So you can't just decide you are going to be attracted to someone if you are not inclined to find them attractive.

I personally have been attracted to people of every racial category that I have met; however, I instinctively find myself paying the most attention to women of East Asian or South Asian background. It was not always this way; as a teenager, growing up in a more Anglo-centric environment, I had very little interest in Asian girls and found white girls much more attractive. But my perception of what is normal, and what is attractive, shifted as I moved from high school to university and into a circle of largely non-white friends.

But how does it get to be that we are attracted to certain types and not others?

It has a lot to do with how we are conditioned. Whatever culture or society you grow up in has its own social conditioning which encourages you to see certain characteristics as being more attractive than others. In a country like Australia, we are conditioned to regard thin Nordic (fair haired, light eye colour) women as the epitome of beauty. This is changing gradually of course, but that unconscious perception is deeply embedded in our consciousness.

Which is one reason why so many Asians, and non-white people in general, decry the way they are portrayed in the media, because it is the media that helps perpetuate these ideals. If we saw more leading male Asian actors on our TV screens, there would be a shift in this perception, to some degree at least. Contrast that with the number of attractive Asian women on TV; they are probably still underrepresented, but not to the same degree as Asian men.


At the end of the day, whatever the overall trend, it doesn't have to impact on individual encounters. Whatever your race, you need to assess someone for who they are, not what race they are. Asian brothers, if a white woman dismisses your approach because she has some twisted perception that you are less manly, then don't worry; you don't need her anyway. There are plenty of women out there, white and otherwise, who will appreciate you for who you are.



See also:

Jen Kwok: "Date an Asian (or at least f**k one)"

The Asian penis in popular culture

Race and Dating: "What is it with you and Indian chicks?"

Interracial dating trends in the USA

Being mixed and not looking like your folks

When you are a person of mixed-race, being not quite one thing or the other, there is a good possibility that you don't look much like one of both of your parents.

Take me for example. This is my mother:

While this is my father:

And this is of course my good self:

See what I mean? You can kind of see some resemblance to both, but it ain't like it jumps straight out at you.

Now I know this is not restricted to mixed-race kids; there are also plenty of you out there who are NOT mixed and who don't look much like your parents either, in which case you probably more closely resemble the milkman. But what I'm talking about here is the extra level of difference due to race.

In a multiracial society, interracial relationships are becoming more and more common, so nowadays if you're an white man carrying a small child with dark skin, onlookers might give you the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming you are some sort of sex offender.

But in a place with less racial diversity this can sometimes lead to confusion.

For example:

My Uncle Djoko is Indonesian, with brown skin, a slight build and is not overly tall. He married an Australian woman, and his adult sons Paul, John and Adam are all well-built fellows around 6ft tall, who are like me in that they don't look particularly Asian (in a stereotypical sense).

On holiday in Bali, Uncle Djoko accompanied his three sons as they went shopping. At one particular shop they made a few purchases of clothes. As they were leaving the shop, the manager unexpectedly handed him a small amount of cash.

It dawned on Uncle Djoko what was happening and he shook his head, handing it back. "No, no. These are my sons."

The manager had assumed from the start that he was in fact a tour guide. It is common practice in Indonesia for businesses to give a tip to guides or drivers who bring tourists into their shop. So seeing an Indonesian man with 3 young men who did not look Indonesian, it was an easy mistake to make.

My cousin Nesa has had a similar experience. During a brief stay in the town of Bogor, I was keen to check out the renowned botanical gardens. Nesa was less enthused, preferring the more common Indonesian activity of sitting around smoking cigarettes. After I wandered through the gate and he parked the car, one of the nearby food stall operators asked him, "So, you are a chauffeur for a bule (white person)?"

Any of y'all out there had a similar experience?

"Rape by deception" - for pretending to be Jewish?

Hear about this story? A woman in Israel shags a guy who she thinks is Jewish. Turns out he's actually an Arab. She goes to the police. Arab guy gets jailed for rape.

What do you reckon? The verdict sounds like a complete load of horsesh!t to me, but maybe I'm missing something here. Read it for yourself:

A Palestinian man was convicted of rape in Jerusalem after he had consensual sex with a woman who he had tricked into thinking he was also Jewish. Shabbar Kashur, 30, was sentenced to 18 months behind bars after he accepted a plea bargain for the charge “rape by deception.”
Kashur first met the woman in downtown Jerusalem in September 2008. At the time, he had told her that he was a single Jewish man who was looking for a long term relationship. They talked for a minute, and then went to a nearby building and had sex, according to the complaint.
The woman later found out that the man was not Jewish at all, and was an Arab from East Jerusalem. She filed a criminal complaint for indecent assault and rape. Because he took the plea that was offered to him, the charges were lessened to rape by deception.
Arabs currently make up over 20 percent of the population in Israel, but relationships between the two cultures are rare amid the ongoing violence in the region. There are very few integrated neighborhoods in Israel, and even fewer relationships.
One judge said that even though the two of them had had consensual sex, the woman never would have said yes if she had realized that the man was not Jewish.
“If she hadn’t thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she never would have cooperated,” the judges said.

The original article is here. The man claims he never even told her he was Jewish, and she just assumed. I dunno... let's assume he did actually lie about it.

Now, let's be honest. People lie all the time to get sex. Mostly it is the men who do so. Is that wrong? Of course. Is that rape? Er...

I mean, fellas, let's be real. If you are about to get it on with someone who may be hot but you're not in love with, and he/she asks, "Do you love me?" what are you gonna say?
Further up the bullsh!t scale, some guys might go all out and lie their asses off to get some ass. You know, pretend they're single when they're not, or pretend they really do want a relationship when they are just out to hit it and quit it. Such guys are douchebags, no doubt. But not rapists, surely?

It sounds like Shabbar Kashur falls into this category. From the sounds of it, maybe he deserves to have the Jewish woman's brother kick his ass. But 18 months in jail, following 2 years of house arrest?

In the past, men have been charged with fraud for this kind of thing, according to this article. And I can maybe accept that. Because while he may have deceived her, she still entered the sexual act of her own free choice, right?

But where do you draw the line on this stuff? Because rape by deception certainly does and should exist as a legitimate and serious charge. For example, if someone knows they have HIV but tells you otherwise and has unprotected sex with you; or if someone who is 19 pretends to be 15 in order to have sex with someone underage. Those are two examples. But those are two pretty heinous things to happen. Finding out the guy was actually an Arab? That's in a totally different class, no matter whether you like Arabs or not.

And that's what I find quite repugnant about this. It seems based on the assumption that Shabbar Kashur's Arab-ness is a horrible trait akin to having a disease or taking advantage of young girls. You'd have to regard this as a racist decision, which is a reflection of the entitled attitude of a dominant majority population (in this case, Jews in Israel).

Rape is primarily about power and dominance. I just don't see that as a factor in the sex act here.

Perhaps the woman involved might realise that some of the old-fashioned values - like not sleeping with someone until you know them pretty well - actually have some basis in common sense. Not that I'm justifying his deception, but that's the risk you take when you are over-eager to jump in the sack with total strangers.

And don't for a minute think that I'm trying to minimise rape or its impact. I'm not at all. Indeed, I think cases like this are insulting to the many real victims of rape who need the help of a justice system which is being tied up by frivolous cases like this.

But I may well be wrong about all this, and I'm open to persuasion. Feel free to share your thoughts.
Interesting clip below about the case and the context in which it occurs.